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Breaching Factory walls i RB


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#1 Fiedler

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:32 PM

Hej,

 

Vad kostar det att gå från 1 factory hex till en annan  om man går genom ett breach? 1 eller 2. Det står "wall" i O5.331 sista meningen men är det bara för LOS eller även för moves?

 

/S



#2 CTABKA

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:48 PM

1

#3 Klas Malmström

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:32 PM

Tv¨å Q&A som säger att det endast räknas som en Wall for "LOS purposes".

 

O5.331
In O5.331 when breaching a factory wall hexside it says “the hexside’s effects remain unchanged except as follows: units may
move/rout/advance/Withdraw-from-Melee, and same-level (only) LOS may be drawn, across it as if it were a wall (exclusive of its
vertices, whose status remains unchanged by the Breach);” Do units need to claim WA to see through the breach beyond the
adjacent hex?
A. No, since a unit behind a Wall does not need this.

Does the breach provide HD status to an AFV adjacent to the breach if the LOS crosses through the breach? Does the breach
prevent bow-mounted armament (BMG or FT for OT-34) from being used if LOS is treated as if being a wall? Does the breached
factory wall provide a +2 TEM as a wall (assuming the hex just has factory TEM otherwise)?
A. No to all: The rule only says that LOS may be drawn as if it is a wall. No other Wall rules apply.

 

 

O5.331 Once a Breach is created in a Factory
wall, it is treated as a Wall for many purposes,
including LOS. Can Wall TEM be claimed by a
target directly behind the wall hexside (as per
B9.3)?
A. No.
 



#4 carlsson

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 10:41 PM

Det här låter ju helt galet!

 

Kommateringen visar tydligt att intentionen är att det ska kosta ett extra MF "som om det vore en mur":

 

....units may move/rout/advance/Withdraw-from-Melee, and same-level (only) LOS may be drawn, across it as if it were a wall...

 

Är det där en officiell QA? Vet du Klas om de tänker förtydliga detta i RF-versionen? 

 

För mig känns det helt enkelt väldigt självklart att det ska kosta extra eftersom det endast är ett hål i den feta väggen. Det finns ju liksom en anledning att man inte får skjuta med full IFP också...



#5 Fiedler

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:16 AM

Hej,

 

Jag lutar åt herr Carlssons tolkning men vågar inte ta strid mot Melvins och Klas ståndpunkt. Har lagt en QA fråga till MMP för att dubbelkolla.

 

/s



#6 Klas Malmström

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:57 PM

Det här låter ju helt galet!

 

Kommateringen visar tydligt att intentionen är att det ska kosta ett extra MF "som om det vore en mur":

 

....units may move/rout/advance/Withdraw-from-Melee, and same-level (only) LOS may be drawn, across it as if it were a wall...

 

Är det där en officiell QA? Vet du Klas om de tänker förtydliga detta i RF-versionen? 

 

För mig känns det helt enkelt väldigt självklart att det ska kosta extra eftersom det endast är ett hål i den feta väggen. Det finns ju liksom en anledning att man inte får skjuta med full IFP också...

Nej, det är inga officiella Q&A.

Tror inte att något förtydligande har varit uppe till diskussion - men å andra sidan tror jag inte MMP är medvetna om att frågan ens är aktuell - det är ju inte så att den har frekvent diskuterats på on-line forum, etc. D.v.s. detta är ingen "känd" fråga.



#7 Klas Malmström

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:58 PM

Jag lutar åt herr Carlssons tolkning men vågar inte ta strid mot Melvins och Klas ståndpunkt. Har lagt en QA fråga till MMP för att dubbelkolla.

Jag har ingen ståndpunkt - jag bara förmedlade dom gamla Q&A.



#8 Fiedler

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:10 AM

Hejsan

 

Fick svar idag från Perry. Det kostar 1+COT att gå genom breach.

 

Se nedan

 

-----------------------------------

1 plus COT, as if a wall.

 

....Perry

MMP

Hi

 

Question:  What is cost for moving from a factory hex to another through a breached factory wall? 1 or 2 (for “WALL”)

 

Rationale:

A question on Breach movement in a RB game. Seems to be two rules here. The last part of O5.331 seem to means that the wall effect is for LOS only, not movement cost. But in5.331 last line there is a wall that may affect move? In other words does it cost 1 to move through a breach or 2 for crossing a breach/wall?

23.711 Breach: Unpinned, Good Order Infantry with a DC in a Rowhouse may attempt to Breach the black bar by expending one MF to Place a DC during its MPh and declaring the Rowhouse hexside it is attacking. If successfully Placed, the DC attack is resolved vs the hexside (only - but with normal TEM) during the AFPh; if the DC detonates, it will Breach the wall with any NMC or better result on the IFT and, using the same Original IFT DR, will attack any units in the corresponding adjacent Rowhouse Location as Area Fire (12 FP if unconcealed, 6 FP if concealed) with full TEM [EXC to both: if the DC malfunctions; A23.4]. Place a Breach counter in the proper Location with the arrow pointing toward the breached hexside. Thereafter, normal building-to-building LOS and movement options exist between that level and the same level of the breached ADJACENT rowhouse. A Breach is also created whenever an AFV drives through a black bar without causing rubble as per 23.41

5.331 EFFECTS: Once a Factory interior Wall hexside has been Breached, that hexside's effects remain unchanged except as follows:
units may move/rout/advance/Withdraw-from-Melee, and same-level (only) LOS may be drawn, across it as if it were a wall

 

 

All the best

 

Stefan

 

1 plus COT, as if a wall.

 

....Perry

MMP

Hi

 

Question:  What is cost for moving from a factory hex to another through a breached factory wall? 1 or 2 (for “WALL”)

 

Rationale:

A question on Breach movement in a RB game. Seems to be two rules here. The last part of O5.331 seem to means that the wall effect is for LOS only, not movement cost. But in5.331 last line there is a wall that may affect move? In other words does it cost 1 to move through a breach or 2 for crossing a breach/wall?

23.711 Breach: Unpinned, Good Order Infantry with a DC in a Rowhouse may attempt to Breach the black bar by expending one MF to Place a DC during its MPh and declaring the Rowhouse hexside it is attacking. If successfully Placed, the DC attack is resolved vs the hexside (only - but with normal TEM) during the AFPh; if the DC detonates, it will Breach the wall with any NMC or better result on the IFT and, using the same Original IFT DR, will attack any units in the corresponding adjacent Rowhouse Location as Area Fire (12 FP if unconcealed, 6 FP if concealed) with full TEM [EXC to both: if the DC malfunctions; A23.4]. Place a Breach counter in the proper Location with the arrow pointing toward the breached hexside. Thereafter, normal building-to-building LOS and movement options exist between that level and the same level of the breached ADJACENT rowhouse. A Breach is also created whenever an AFV drives through a black bar without causing rubble as per 23.41

5.331 EFFECTS: Once a Factory interior Wall hexside has been Breached, that hexside's effects remain unchanged except as follows:
units may move/rout/advance/Withdraw-from-Melee, and same-level (only) LOS may be drawn, across it as if it were a wall

 

 

All the best

 

Stefan






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